Showing posts with label debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label debate. Show all posts

Thursday, September 17, 2015

I'd prefer Trump over Jeb

Because the latter just keeps proving that he is the biggest tool in the world! At least Trump is right about money in politics, taxing the 1%, and women's health.

Some highlights from last night:

Rand calls out Jeb for "getting away with" smoking pot as a kid because he's privileged, but plenty of dark skinned poor people get their lives ruined by a drug conviction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZgYLo-89vg

Bush "faulted" Trump for inviting Hillary to his wedding, and Trump said that everyone on the stage was beholden to their donors but him, who has refused millions. Of course Jeb tried to deny this.

Trump also alleged that Dubya's failures is the reason why Obama became the next president. Then Jeb totally pivoted and said, "At least my brother kept us safe," to thunderous applause. Kept us safe!?! Didn't 9/11 happen under his watch? How many Americans and our friends died in Iraq and Afghanistan on his watch? How many vets committed suicide and/or got addicted to drugs, and how many military families were impacted by divorces, disabilities, etc.? How much did public health suffer due to panic/hardships from the financial crisis? And of course - Katrina. His terrible grasp of historical context is mind-blowing. Yes, Trump sucks about facts and policy. But he's a CEO and manages his own brand, so at least he gets big picture stuff better than those other bureaucrats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT0ZFolQWqY

It's kind of funny how it was everyone-vs-Trump now. He's not used to getting called out and attacked (more than he's dishing out) I'm sure. But it might backfire and make Trump look more sympathetic/righteous. Of course every front-runner has to deal with more scrutiny, but the roles dynamic is interesting here. To his supporters, the DC establishment is trying to sink Trump because he's a legit threat now an would really shake things up if he got power. But that is why Trump is popular, so I doubt his fans would prefer to support guys like Jeb or Rubio just because they seem to know more about policy. I guess his fans would prefer that he not utter so many apish insults, but he fires them up, which is more than the other hopefuls can claim. Can we please have at least 6 of those losers bow out this week!?!

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/09/16/440718361/the-1-passage-you-need-to-read-to-understand-donald-trump-s-appeal

Have some self-respect, man. Dubya is twice the man Jeb is (for better or worse).

Tuesday, August 11, 2015

The peculiar and hilarous Fox, GOP, and Trump dynamic

I was impressed with the tough and direct questions the FNC moderators asked of the kiddie-table and prime time GOP candidates (addressing and not ignoring their glaring liabilities). That makes sense, as I suppose it's in the GOP's interests to thin the (huge) heard as early as possible so they don't waste resources/political capital for the coming war vs. Hillary.

Personally, I don't think Kelly's sexism question was journalistically or politically out of line. Trump has not held office and has not behaved like he deserved to hold office in the past (esp. vis-a-vis women who are >50% of voters), so why should America elect him now? He of course felt that question was unfair and "impolite" (teapot, kettle anyone?), but Kelly never forced Trump to say/tweet those disparaging things in the past. You make your bed, you lay in it man. Nothing is off limits when you're running for president.

Anyway, I thought that exchange would really hurt Trump and the GOP, who have already suffered from major rejection by many female demos. But strangely the opposite happened. Trump's numbers held steady or maybe even rose, and FNC got blasted with angry viewer feedback defending Trump and criticizing Kelly and her network. Trump did a "genius" thing and flipped the issue from one of his sexism/rudeness/unstatesmanship to one of media bias/political correctness (stuff that is hurting America) - the latter really resonates with his supporters and some conservatives.

He must have prepared for that, and you have to give him credit for delivering it so persuasively. His daughter Ivanka allegedly urged him to tone down the racist/sexist/offensive tone of his campaign, but he dismissed her because every time he did something outrageous (even the McCain comment that I thought was going to sink him - but it turns out a lot of conservatives don't really like establishment McCain anymore - esp. for losing to Obama), his numbers held steady or rose. I guess it's like saying, "Why should I reform and get a legal job when I'm making so much money selling dope, and not getting caught by the cops?"

The FNC base is a little weird. They hate and distrust the (elitist, liberal-leaning) mainstream media, yet still watch FNC (the top TV news property in the US by far). So Fox has to straddle that fine line of being the MSM (being part of the institute of journalism) and hating on the MSM (mocking and rebelling against the institution of journalism). This is problematic at times because from segment to segment, you never quite know what you're going to get. Certainly their opinion shows are more of the latter.

To wrap up, the business-first, politics-second Roger Ailes saw the reaction to the Trump-Kelly spat and was worried that defending Kelly (and her legitimate question) would piss off many viewers and hurt the company. This is probably why most of the other candidates (sans Paul, who is desperate to stay relevant) didn't take the opportunity to go after Trump on national TV. They talked crap at their lightly-covered campaign events, but not on the big stage because (1) more Trump feuding only seems to benefit Trump and (2) they risk a Kelly-esque backlash and don't want to be labeled as establishment cronies (the part of the GOP that Trump has called "stupid" and blamed for losing to the Dems - maybe that is accurate).

So Ailes personally talked to Trump to smooth things over, and probably invited him on the network soon (he has had many interviews in the past). Kelly had to deliver a highly sanitized closure statement and was even subtly congratulating Trump for his recent political success (gotta throw his Jupiter-sized ego a bone). That must have sucked for her. So once again, score one for money/sexism/cynicism at the expense of decency/women/journalism.

PS - it's pretty telling that on Trump's web page, there is ZERO CONTENT regarding his political platform and policy ideas (oh yeah, because they don't exist beyond his sound bites). He makes Rick Perry look like a wonk in comparison.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/

Monday, July 29, 2013

Intolerance, the GOP, and "Christian" values

I totally missed this one, and shame on you all for not bring it up either. J/K :)

"The Newsroom" mentioned this in tonight's episode. Apparently at one of the forgettable and often pathetic 2011 GOP primary debates hosted by FNC, they aired a clip of a soldier serving in Iraq who just came out as gay on YouTube and asked the candidates if they would roll back the progress that gay and lesbian soldiers have made. Loud boos came from the audience, and not a single candidate had the courage (not even courage, but minimum human decency) to support that soldier - who was taking a major risk - and chastise members of the crowd who were disrespectful. At least in 2008 McCain had the decency to correct the people who were spouting Obama lies/hate/fear (much to his political peril among some conservatives, unfortunately). The question was directed at major bigot Santorum, who blah blahed a little about how sexuality has no place in the military (and he got cheers for that). Just like how racism is no longer a problem in the US, and abstinence is the best way to fight AIDS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c-Ijky95dc

I guess during that summer of GOP debates, there were also regrettable crowd reactions like cheers for TX's prolific executions and letting the sick uninsured die. But for the "pro-military" party, I can't believe how they handled the gay soldier issue. He had to hide who he was, and probably endure a lot of homophobic conversation weekly, just to live through 120 degree heat and get shot at/blown up. All that because he cared enough to serve the US in the armed forces. And I think this was the first time in a long time that the entire GOP field had not served in uniform at all. So yeah, they have every right to pass judgment and hang that soldier out to dry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xT1iMvTwYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irx_QXsJiao

Well, after the repeal of DADT and various state and federal court rulings, one could argue that the LGBT crowd got the "last laugh" and are on a winning streak vs. the old, hateful ways of a certain wing of the GOP. Obviously there's a long way to go before sexual orientation discrimination is no longer an issue, but we have to hold people accountable when they are exhibiting shameful behaviors. I don't think Romney's trouncing has done anything to reverse the undercurrents of bigotry that exist in some of the GOP, and frankly I don't know what will. But for those who believe that homosexuality is a sin, a choice, a disease, a deviant lifestyle, etc... how is this for thought?

There are plenty more damaging and even deadly transgressions discussed in the Bible that we should probably address before we try to eradicate homosexuality from society. For those who are so against gays and the "sin" that they represent - are they just as intolerant and vociferously opposed to the rampant selfishness and greed that has caused great suffering and even deaths worldwide during the recession? Are they similarly protesting the brutality and violence of our penal system and foreign policies? And will they also boo those who show a total lack of Christian compassion for the poor, the sick, and the mistreated (and may even contribute to their pain)? Fight those fights first, because as far as I know Jesus didn't bring up homosexuality even once in all the Gospels. And if he did, I really doubt it was in the context of booing them.

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Come on, that's just LIBERAL MEDIA talk. The right and honorable Mr. Rick Santorum totally would have condemned those boos...if he had heard them.

"I condemn the people who booed that gay soldier. That soldier is serving our country. I thank him for his service to our country. I’m sure he’s doing an excellent job; I hope he is safe and I hope he returns safely and does his mission well.
I have to admit I seriously did not hear those boos. Had I heard them, I certainly would have commented on them. But, as you know, when you’re in that sort of environment, you’re sort of focused on the question and formulating you answer, and I just didn’t hear those couple of boos that were out there. But certainly had I, I would've said, “Don’t do that. This man is serving our country and we are to thank him for his service.”

I mean, you could barely even hear those boos, how could he have known they were booing? Or what exactly they were booing? Maybe they were booing something else.:
"Kelly brings up an excellent point, sharing that it was unclear whether those booing were doing so because of the soldier, or the content of his question"

Because if that was the case, then it would have been totally okay right?

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Haha thx. Gotta love the excuse machine. That's kind of amazing that 10 candidates + the moderator didn't hear anything from what seemed to be dozens/hundreds of booers in the crowd. They were just too dialed in! They presumably heard the question (which they were concentrating on) and the video... so putting 2 and 2 together, could they at least acknowledge that soldier's patriotic service and legit concerns, apart from the issue of crowd boos? They acted like that man didn't even exist, and Kelly was giving them a hypothetical question. Humanizing an issue with an actual personal example makes it harder to blanket stereotype and hate (kudos to Google and Fox for that I guess). I guess that's debating for dummies 101 though: when you don't like the question or direction of the discussion, just pretend it never happened and talk about what you want to talk about.

At least in 2008 McCain had the decency to respectfully and diplomatically correct people who were spouting Obama lies/hate/fear (much to his political peril among some conservatives, unfortunately). And McCain was a fogey probably going deaf and senile at the time. He heard the boos and did the right thing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c-Ijky95dc

Wednesday, October 3, 2012

First debate thoughts

What do you think of the debate? I'm DVRing it and am about 20 min into it now when I've started this email. I'd have to say Romney is winning so far. I forget how Obama debated in 2008, but he's never been known for being very skilled at it. Romney has a lot of vulnerabilities on domestic policies, and I don't think Obama held him accountable. I know that the incumbent usually has to be on the defensive, and they may be "rusty" after not debating for a while and too busy running the nation (plus the challenger is battle-tested from the primaries), but Obama should have done better. I'd have to say Romney won and it wasn't close. Argh.
OPENING STATEMENT
Romney's opening statement was much better. He was looking at the camera, modulating his voice well (and not engaging in his typical whine), and coming off as more heartfelt. Obama was looking at Lehrer and was just too stiff and academic. During the rebuttal, Romney was looking at Obama while firing off criticisms - it just felt more persuasive. And of course this is coming from a viewer who is heavily biased against Romney.
TAXES
I don't like how they both got bogged town in taxes and accusations. Most of America has already made up their mind about what they expect Romney to do on taxes if he wins. Obama suggested that a study showed Romney will never be able to cut taxes and increase military spending while keeping the deficit from growing, and that the rich will enjoy most of the tax cut. Romney denied that and said that he wants to cut taxes on the middle class. Then Obama comes back and basically calls him a liar. Then Romney refuted it again. Back and forth, citing this tax rate and that study - a waste of 10 min. A tough way for the American people to start watching a 2 hr debate: tax analysis. Either the public believes Romney (and his brand new tax plan from tonight) or not, so move on. Obama should have gotten off that (it was going nowhere) and instead explained how gov. spending (fueled by fair taxes) and regs can and have led to economic growth. He should have explaind how gov. spending helped keep the economy going during the Recession.
Then Romney got a little petulant, interrupting Lehrer and Obama, and even crying that he deserves to get the last word on taxes because "Obama spoke first." Yeah, Obama is starting to look at the camera and Romney is focused on Lehrer. He's rambling, spouting off too many stats, and I think is losing some of the audience.
DEFICIT
Now it's Obama's turn for rambling. They get 2 minutes apiece. Can't try to touch on 4 or 5 points in that time period. People won't remember even if you're making great points. KISS (short and simple). Romney is making it sounds like Obama wants to raise taxes on a weak economy and waste the money on some stupid projects, in line with his inept socialist stereotype. He has to shoot that down. It's not that Obama wants to raise taxes, but that current taxes are dangerously too low for certain payers. That money can be better spent on cutting the deficit and investing in infrastructure. He touched on it a bit, but he needs to get more explicit. And then he walked into the trap on taxing Exxon more, which allowed Romney to bring up Solyndra and "big gov. picking winners and losers" in the green energy game. I don't know if Obama wants to refute the perception that he is much more anti-business than Romney, but he is not doing a good job so far.  
ENTITLEMENTS
Obama said that he and Romney feel similarly on SocSec. D'OH!!!!! Come on man, that was the perfect oppportunity to go after the Ryan plan right out of the gate. It's been a while since Ryan was announced as VP and the GOP convention, so you gotta remind voters of what he stands for. Obama made it sound like he is on the defensive, and let Romney even confirm that he doesn't want to cut entitlements (for current and soon-to-be beneficiaries). Forget the specifics, he got to say that he doesn't want to cut. Don't let him off the hook! He let Romney shoot first with the"700 billion" cut to Medicare to pay for Obamacare comment, which Obama didn't even refute or explain. Of course that is exactly the same cut that Ryan wants, but the audience heard it from Romney first, so he won that point.
Later Obama brought up the Ryan voucher program, but it's probably too late, and they got bogged down in the wonky details of it's hypothetical administering. Plus Romney has probably practiced this scenario and knows some clever pivot quotes. Obama is losing people by focusing on unmemorable numbers. People know that he knows the numbers and policies. He doesn't need to explain health care economics to us. Now it's time to bust out the big guns, play to people's emotions and fears! The GOP don't get to have a monopoly on fear-mongering. Just get the accusations out there, and let Romney fumble with an explanation. Plant the idea in people's mind that Romney wants to cut, but Obama wants to protect and care for grandma. Now Romney is saying that Obama will cut and he will preserve. Come on Obama don't let your biggest advantage go to waste, or even become a weakness.
Obama brought up the well-known point that Medicare has lower admin costs than private insurance. Thank goodness Romney didn't counter that that is only true because private insurers have to deal with different regs for 50 states. Romney did get to say that he thinks the private sector can do things better than gov., and Obama left it at that. Boo.
REGS
Romney gets to say that he supports smart regs, and makes Dodd-Frank sound like a bailout to giant banks (when most voters don't know the contents of that bill). Obama then recounted the history of what his admin. did regarding banking rescue (he made a good point that the banks have repaid all the bailouts with interest), but failed to indict the laissez-faire, GOP-endorsed policies that are mostly still in play. He did have a great line of, "If you think too much Wall St. regs were the problem behind the financial crisis, then Romney is the candidate for you!"
HEALTH CARE
Obama's gotta tug at the heart strings here. "Because of the Affordable Care Act, Angie gets the dialysis she needs to keep going to college and build a better life for her family. Romney and the GOP want to take that away just so billion-dollar insurance companies can keep more profits." At least Obama brought up Romneycare in Mass., but stopped short of calling Romney a hypocrite. That opening let Romney explain how his plan was so much better than Obamacare, because it was "bipartisan", "didn't raise taxes or kill jobs", etc. Obama didn't respond to any of that, and didn't explain that Obamacare will lower costs in the long run. And then Obama has to explain the legitimacy of the "death panels" and what they actually do. C'mon you don't have to go there. Just say they implement proven ways to reduce waste and improve care outcomes. More bang for buck. But he let Romney counter that gov. has never cut costs or innovated better than the private sector. Maybe that's actually true. And again it plays to the narrative that Romney is a champion of business, business can solve our problems better, and Obama's gov. is just in the way wasting money and stomping on freedoms. Obama is not refuting that and it's terrible.
Another good line from Obama: "Do the voters think that Romney is keeping his plans on taxes, replacing Dodd-Frank, and replacing Obamacare secret because they're so good?"
But Romney got to fire back that he "knows how to work with" the other party, and won't shove policies "down people's throats." He got to say that Obama+Pelosi+Reid forced Obamacare on us, and are taking rights away from the states. Again no response from Obama. Congress has horrible favorability ratings now. Obama just got linked to them. Why doesn't he link Romney and Ryan to the GOP Congress' faults (fiscal cliff, Todd Aiken, Tea Party craziness, corruption, McConnell saying their top priority is kicking Obama out, etc.)? Come on, go big or go home. Romney said that he believes in principles of liberty and self responsibility. Then Obama should have countered that insurance only works when the young and healthy pay their fair share to support the sick. If only the sick buy private insurance, of course it will be unaffordable and with too many restrictions.
ROLE OF GOV.
Obama can really go after Romney here like, "The American free economy is amazing, but gov. projects can do things that the private sector can't. No one wants a Big Brother government restricting our freedoms, but what about Romney and the GOP's vision? They don't seem to believe in the free market because they want to give preferential treatment to those among us who have the most." But he didn't, and ceded the "freedom" agenda to Romney.
Romney got to cite the Constitution and American valiues, making him look more patriotic and American. Romney also claimed that the "proof" that the big gov. plan is not working is our current state of the economy. Obama should be able to destroy that reasoning, but he didn't. Each and every time, Obama let him off easy. It's like he's a football team with only enough players for defense. I don't get it. I know Obama is like Spock and he fights with honor, but why not score some cheap points, or at least don't let Romney off so easy? There's no downside, and it makes him look more genuine and caring. He's not a professor, he's a candidate trying to win. Millions are depending on him to win.
CLOSING
Finally Obama acts a little human. Fighting for the middle class - keep up that stuff. But overall it was an opportunity lost and a great chance for Romney to reframe himself after his recent gaffes. Sucks.

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For the first time I'm concerned that Romney could win on style, of all things. He successfully executed the 'etch a sketch' strategy on the issues while being energetic and engaging in a surprising way. A good example of form over substance.  And he got away with it because Obama let him. I'd like to see Hillary or Bill as designated hitters in the remaining debates

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I agree. The Clintons know how to win. In the debates Obama is not the president anymore, he is a prize fighter trying to hurt the other guy. I don't think Obama is as skilled as Clinton on wearing different hats at the right times. It's too bad - nice guys finish last. He doesn't have his 2008 mania to rely on anymore. Now the thirst for change is against him. He was almost aloof and apathetic up there. He is fighting for his life, and for millions of Americans who depend on him. Doesn't that fire him up? Come on, give it all you got. People always respond well to passion. It's not that Romney necessarily won, but Obama lost it as you said. Romney did cleverly reinvent himself (or in some cases introduce himself) to the public tonight. He actually sounded compassionate, centrist, and knowledgeable, while not betraying core conservatism. Obama should have known that was Mitt's strategy and threw roadblocks in the way. You can't give your opponents a big gift basket like that!

My wife and I also noticed how animated and engaging Romney was, it's like black and white vs. his demeanor on the stump. Maybe he is in his element here (well he has been rehearsing for a month!). Obama often looked slow, weak, unsure, and disconnected. It was frustrating to watch. Like the boxing matches when the losing guy just won't let his hands go and keeps getting hit. You won't win if you don't punch!

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I think Romney made a really big all-in play on the media's stupidity tonight, and I'm curious how it plays out.

He basically repudiated everything he's run on so far and made a big push towards the center. It was most obvious early on when he told us that $5T in tax cuts isn't his plan. Well, up until that moment right there, it had been. As that campaign insider promised a couple months ago, Romney's gone out and shaken the etch-a-sketch and become a different candidate.

I think Obama got caught off-guard by that. He threw a couple jabs early on, being very specific about what Romney's plans said, and Romney dodged it by repudiating those plans. I don't think Obama, or really anybody, was prepared for Romney to get up on stage and tell everyone that he was a pro-regulation candidate who wasn't going to make any unpaid-for tax cuts, and that anybody citing previous his previous statements was just not telling the truth. You could see it in some of those huge grins on Obama's face as he's going "holy shit I can't believe he's saying this."

So I think after those first tax-policy jabs got dodged, Obama decided to draw him out, to play it safe and not take any big shots, just get Romney's new ideas out in the open. Then tonight Obama can go back and figure out a new strategy for this etch-a-sketch candidate he's facing. But I don't think he was ready for that candidate, and he didn't want to make up a new strategy on the spot just to appear to win a debate.

The big question is how the media responds, whether they call Romney out on his flip-flopping or if that's left to Obama.

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I guess his push to the center is the Oct. surprise? Unless Obama's strategy team are a bunch of morons, they should have anticipated this possibility from Romney's camp, at least remotely (especially due to Mitt's track record, and that he needed to get more populist after the leaked video). Heck even the "etch a sketch" comment had been circulating in the media prior to the debate. So your game plan turns out to be wrong or your opponent pulls a surprise, no problem - ADJUST! As the POTUS he should know how to be agile, absorb new info on the fly, and outsmart. There are only 3 debates here, show some urgency (or is he too confident in the polling?). No wonder why Congress screwed him over year after year.

It wouldn't have been that much of a stretch or a risk to be like, "Hm Governor it's strange - for an entire year during the GOP primaries, you've taken some fairly extreme positions on the debt, taxes, regs, entitlements, and such. It's in the record: (cite a few noteworthy quotes). You chose a fiscal extremist (and kind of a social issues extremist too) as your running mate. And now in our first debate you are totally presenting a different story. Some major conservatives criticized you because they weren't sure what Romney they were going to get (pro-life or pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage or against, etc.). Now all of America may be wondering the same thing. Can you explain why your views have changed so drastically, almost overnight? Because they're not really compatible."

I guess the candidates aren't really allowed to directly address each other, but I am sure he could have injected some of that here and there, instead of getting bogged down in policy minutia that most don't care about and few will remember. Don't leave it to the media to call him out - you had the stage and there was no better time. Put Romney on the defensive - don't give him a pass and let this debate be his coming-out party to the center.

Romney actually sounded compassionate, centrist, and knowledgeable, while not betraying core conservatism. My wife and I also noticed how animated and captivating Romney was; it's like black and white vs. his poor demeanor on the stump. Maybe he is more in his element here (well he has been rehearsing for a month!). Obama often looked slow, weak, unsure, and disconnected. It was frustrating to watch. Like the boxing matches when the losing guy just won't let his hands go (for fear of getting hit), and so then he keeps getting hit. You won't win if you don't punch! What does Obama have to lose? Even if he presses on Mitt hard, it's not like Mitt is the most sympathetic victim figure in the public's eye to make Obama look like a bully.

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Classic guerilla warfare. Now Romney owns the "change agenda", and he got to accuse Obama and the left of basically being Republicans: trickle down, undemocratic, cronyist, out-of-touch, and bullies who just push unpopular, extremist policies down our throats. Time after time Romney snagged the talking points first (liberty, small business, job creation) and repeated the stereotypes that Obama is just a money-wasting, big gov't, no business sense, job killer, and Obama barely fought back. The debate made it sound like Romney was the champion of the uninsured, working class, and elderly!

Friday, April 16, 2010

Political debate from the other side of the pond

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7596176/Election-debate-Nick-Clegg-emerges-victorious.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/uk-politics-video/7596907/Leaders-TV-election-debate-video-highlights.html

This was the UK's first US-style televised PM debate as far as I know, since Britons elect their local Parliamentarians, who in turn nominate the PM, so it's not like the PM candidates have to directly court voters. But as the most visible emissaries of their party's platform, I guess it makes sense. Wow, their speech actually go beyond one-liners and two-syllable words, and they don't have to pause for pointless audience applause! At least the conservative Cameron got pwned while the centrist long shot Clegg shined.

The first debate focused on domestic issues, and subsequent ones will cover foreign affairs and the economy.

Monday, May 26, 2008

Obama and Iraq


But Obama took the turkey that night with a barely-noticed side comment that gave me pause. The Dems were asked to explain their lack of support for Bush's surge proposal earlier in the year, when the effort appears to be producing results now. All 3 rehashed the same talking point that the surge was intended to give Iraqi politicians some calm in the streets, as breathing room to push through overdue legislation and reconciliation. But of course the latter has not really happened, so the Dems declared the surge a failure as a result. They admitted that there was a significant reduction in violence, but what is the point if the leaders are still stalling? Spoken like true politicians – they downplay the positive news that fewer Iraqis are suffering each day, but the fact that the Iraqi government is still dysfunctional partially validates their opposition to the surge. Let's be honest, America can't make the Iraqi government any better. Most poor nations have terrible, corrupt governments, especially ones emerging from war and dictatorship. We even deposed the previous ineffective PM Al-Jafari to get Maliki in power, and now we're stuck with him and the political disaster we've moderated since 2003.

Obama: Although I would point out that much of that violence has been reduced because there was an agreement with tribes in Anbar province -- Sunni tribes -- who started to see, after the Democrats were elected in 2006, you know what, the Americans may be leaving soon, and we are going to be left very vulnerable to the Shi'as. We should start negotiating now. That's how you change behavior.

Obama went a step further than his rivals, and then fell off the cliff. He claimed (with no evidence of course) that the Anbar Sunnis took notice that the Dems regained Congress in 2006, and felt that change was in the air. Maybe the Americans would be leaving soon, so to avoid total Shia domination in the wake of the US withdrawal, they better shun Al Qaeda and play ball now. This was his explanation for the reduction of violence! One or two stupid comments may be forgiven as slips of the tongue (boycotting all Chinese-manufactured toys, attacking targets in Pakistan unilaterally – he has since rescinded this proposal), but any more and it becomes a pattern of poor judgment/self-control.

Maybe he really is that naïve about foreign affairs. Most world polls showed that no one really cared about the midterm election, and Congress has very little non-fiscal war authority. Maybe foreigners already know that the Iraq War is very unpopular and declared a lost cause among Americans, but it matters not if the president wants to continue the fight. What troubles me even more is the fact that none of the Dems could effectively answer the surge question, yet it seems rather obvious to me. It's not a short answer, but nothing in the Middle East ever is. Of course more US troops on the ground engaged in more offensive operations should improve security. Our military should have shown more interest in taking to the streets and vigorously protecting the Iraqi population years ago, instead of just hunkering down in fortified rear bases and only protecting "economic targets". Morally it's the right thing to do and politically it builds trust. Because an insurgent war boils down to which side wins the support of the people, and our side is handicapped because of our nationality and our past performance. The surge had an effect, but 2007 was the deadliest year for US troops post-invasion, and cost us hundreds of billions of dollars. Was the sacrifice worth it, when violence was probably going to somewhat decline on its own? It's not like Iraq is a peaceful paradise after the surge. Since our invasion, Iraqi sects have engaged in ethnic cleansing (not necessarily genocide, but definitely population transfer). Neighborhoods have become much more homogenized, and over 2M Iraqis have become internal or foreign refugees. Separated, impoverished peoples are less likely to engage in organized murder. Yes it may be helpful that US forces erected barricades, checkpoints, or other dividers to separate the hostile parties, but the Iraqis were doing it to themselves anyway.

Bush often cites his "doomsday scenario" for why we have to remain in Iraq: if we leave the violence will spill out of control, extremists will take power, and terrorism will spread elsewhere or follow us home. But this is uncertain, and experts contest it. Maybe the bloodletting of 2006 hit its peak, and now the nation is settling towards equilibrium as analysts predict. In any power vacuum, there will be struggle for dominance, and it may get ugly. But eventually a new order will take root and hopefully all parties will see that they have a better chance to achieve their goals via political channels than in battle, where they could lose everything. Instead of patrolling the streets and bombing suspected militant hideouts, America should be encouraging rival groups to the bargaining table. I know a "wait and see" attitude is risky, but 800 US soldiers might still be alive if we acted differently ( http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=4145).

I know it's hard to deliver a compelling point during a thirty-second debate window, but real issues often can't be nicely packaged for mass consumption. At least say something meaningful and accurate. You can claim that improvements in Iraq were actually independent of the Bush surge, and that military escalation will never be able to fix the greater problems in the Maliki government, as the Dems already noted. As I said, popular support is the true decider of an insurgency/civil war. If the choice is between extremist militias/Al Qaeda and America, then we should be ashamed if we are losing ground. But the militants and Al Qaeda have behaved so terribly in Iraq (especially in the last two years) that the public has turned against them, and they didn't need us to convince them. The militants' strength is their ability to infiltrate, strike fast, and disappear into the populace before we can respond. Yes it is helpful if our forces "clear, retain, and hold" contested neighborhoods, but it's pointless if the fighters just relocate and make trouble elsewhere.

Sunnis used to harbor and rely on insurgents/Al Qaeda for protection against the Americans and Shia who were marginalizing (or in some cases butchering) them. But Qaeda's brutal tactics and twisted form of Islam eventually turned them off. They saw through Osama's BS that the terrorists were not fighting for the liberation of Iraqis, but actually coldly sacrificing them in a Sunni-Shia civil war (sparked by their alleged bombing of the Golden Mosque) and their battle against America. Iraqis don't want to be Qaeda's pawn any more than they want to be ours, and they are tired of the sectarian bloodshed and cruel targeting of innocents in public places. Some Sunni leaders, mostly in Anbar Province, sided with US forces to drive them out (often after accepting large bribes from us, and we even armed their militias for better or worse). Of course there is the danger that they will switch allegiances again, but their change of heart was not due to the surge – it was due to Qaeda's cruelty and our opportune (albeit risky) carrot diplomacy. There is nothing wrong with bribery if it accomplishes what fighting can't!

That is what we need more of in Iraq, shrewd diplomacy instead of more fighting. Let's be honest; we can't force the Maliki government to do anything, and they can stall forever because they know America needs Iraq as a strategic base and oil supplier. Contrary to Obama's assertion, I think the Iraqis in power realize that we're not leaving anytime soon, not after making such a massive investment there. The Shia and Kurds know that it's mostly their country now (Iraq is only the second Shia-led nation in history, and the other is a major enemy of the US), and considering their ugly history of oppression by Sunnis, Turks, and others, why should they make any concessions to their rivals? The last two times Congress has changed hands, did the dominant side make an effort to include and placate the minority side? In fact, their first order of business was consolidating power and pushing through their narrow agendas. So we shouldn't expect any better of the Iraqis, not without motivation at least.

If we want to "win" in Iraq, we may have to incentivize the Shia to play ball. Yes they do enjoy the privileged position now, but it may not last without US backing. If we really mean to threaten them into action, then cut the double-talk and toothless reprimands. Blindly loyal Bush is a lost cause, and the Dems have started down this path but they have to clarify how far they are willing to go. Because as sad as it sounds, the Maliki government is now a larger problem in Iraq than Al Qaeda (according to current and former generals like Colin Powell). There were pseudo-legit elections and a multi-ethnic representative government was formed, but as we've recently seen in Kenya, the availability of democratic mechanisms/elections doesn't ensure justice, cooperation, and the rule of law. Iraq resembles the "Five Families of New York" more than a Western democracy. We could tell Maliki that if he fails to cooperate and we leave (no more money, no more US air strikes and offensives whenever they ring us), the well-armed Saudis have already proposed to support Sunni groups in our wake. His country might become a Saudi-Iran battleground with a new sectarian war even bloodier than 2006, and there's no glory in presiding over a pile of rubble. How would they like that? On the positive side, if we give them guarantees then maybe we can convince them that reconciling with the Sunnis and militants will give them even more goodies down the road. And it's not like Iraq doesn't need help (terrible inflation and unemployment, social services mostly absent, shoddy infrastructure, meddling neighboring nations). The Iraqis have to see us as a long-term strategic and business partner, not just a policeman or a crutch. I don't think it's such a stretch for our next president to realize and advocate this.

Kenya:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17774507&ft=1&f=1001

Iraq surge:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/082407C.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/world/middleeast/11iraq.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/08/07/surge/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId =17857251

http://www.nsnetwork.org/node/176


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As to the gaffe, I don't know - a lot of Republicans have been calling
it that, but I don't really see a serious problem with what Obama is
saying (and I know I'm kind of an Obama fanboi, but I'd believe this
no matter who was saying it).

From what I remember, the justification for the surge is that a burst
of troops will fix things well enough that when we inevitably have to
withdraw down to pre-surge levels, the surge will have made things
better than they were before. This is basically what Bush and Petraeus
said when the proposal was presented last year. Otherwise, all the
surge will have accomplished is a temporary lull in the fighting while
people wait for us to be over-extended again. So I don't think calling
Gibson out when he said the surge was working was a bad idea by the
dems. Don't get me wrong - improving the lives of Iraqis is a good in
itself, but if all we are doing is delaying things for 9-15 months
when we have to start withdrawing troops again, can we really say the
surge "worked"?

And the reason the violence has receded during the surge is partly
because we've pacified Baghdad, but also partly because of the "Anbar
Awakening", as you noted. And the Anbar Awakening was partly a result
of local tribes tiring of Al-Qaeda, but much more so because the
Sunnis realized that a united Shi'a government and militia forces are
a much bigger threat to them than the Americans were. They're
basically scared shitless that if we withdraw, they're toast, so
they're getting all the guns/training they can in the meantime. Would
they feel this pressure to make nice if they felt we were never going
to leave? I'm pretty sure not, and there have been a lot of Sunnis who
have said that basically fear of America leaving was a motivation. How
much this is influenced by domestic politics is hard to say, but given
how much the rest of the world pays attention to what goes on in the
US, I doubt it would fail to escape their attention that a potential
major policy shift might be underway in the US.

As (yet another) a side note, it's interesting being the UK how much
the rest of the world pays attention to what's going on here. I've had
people asking me detailed questions about the procedures of the Iowa
caucus that I'm sure most Americans wouldn't even know how to ask - I
guess because we figure most people in the US don't give a shit about
the rest of the world (or even our own country for that matter), the
rest of the world doesn't give a shit about what's going on in our
country, but that's really not true - the foreign press in the UK
probably covers US domestic politics better than most US sources; even
Al-Jazeera has pretty decent coverage of US politics.

So I agree that it's probably an overly-boastful statement and the
answer is a lot more complicated, so minus points for him on that
answer. However, I don't think that you can deny that insurgents in
Sunni areas changed their behavior in part because they sensed a
possible shift in US policy, which came about in part because the
American public is obviously tiring with the war, which was clearly
expressed in the 2006 elections. I also agree with you in that I don't
think there are any easy solutions to Iraq, but if you look what
happened when the Brits withdrew from Basra, I think that's pretty
suggestive of the dynamics going on right now in Iraq - there is no
pressure to solve any problems now because they know the Americans
will always be around to provide security. Once they sense that we're
on our way out, then you might start to see them making real progress,
because then they have to.

If you're interested, I think his plan shows that he's not that naieve
about Iraq: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/IraqFactSheet.pdf -
I'm not sure his plan is better than any other candidate, because Iraq
is such a clusterfuck, but on the stump and in his issue papers he
shows he's aware of the complexities at least.

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If people really want to support a candidate, they shouldn't just sing his or her praises all day and excuse their mistakes. The world has enough cheerleaders and salesmen out there; feedback and oversight are critical duties of the citizenry and free press. We are here to keep them honest, double-check their work, and suggest improvements. We shouldn't just leave it in the hands of paid campaign strategists or media blowhards with their own agendas. We are the Donald! Why were our parents harder on us than all the other kids? Because they love us the most and they want (and expect) us to do our best. They refuse to accept "good enough" and push us to do better. Bad parents are apathetic and just spoil their kids with undeserving affection/compliments. I think it's more helpful to support a candidate by criticizing them every step of the way and demanding better. Maybe then our leaders wouldn't take us for granted after Election Day passes.

Remember that Bush plunged the US, Afghanistan, and Iraq into a lot of problems partly because he surrounded himself with apologists and yes-men who didn't challenge his assumptions/opinions. I think true patriots and supporters would hold candidates (especially favored/popular candidates) accountable for what they said and did. We still want to vote for them and persuade others to do the same, but we have to acknowledge faults and call a spade a spade. Otherwise there is no incentive to improve if our leaders dismiss the sheepish masses as infatuated and blindly loyal. Preoccupied with idol worship, we might forget to keep the best interests of the country in mind. They are not infallible deities, and should have their feet over the coals at all times. When appropriate we have the right to criticize them (after all, they are working for us), not just accept everything they have to offer as the best of all worlds. Obama might well become one of our greatest presidents, but a lot of his support comes from his rock star celebrity, not necessarily his merits as a prospective leader. Let's be honest; many voters (and candidates!) have no idea what it takes to be a president, myself included. I am just trying to barely educate myself on some issues and make the best guess I can. But ultimately as JFK said, one ignorant voter can compromise democracy for all of us (no accusations intended, and I'll be the first to admit my ignorant voter status). Americans have the right and duty to scrutinize the hell out of our future leaders. Better do it now before it's too late, or we'll have to clean up another Katrina/Iraq.

----------

I'll stick to the Iraq issue for the rest of this email (because it interests me more) and touch on campaigning later if I have time. I know you and several others on this email list are strong Obama supporters, and in the end I might vote for him too. Especially if the choice is him against Romney (I have come to hate him for all reasons except his Mormon faith!). But stupid is still stupid. You know I like to diss the pack leader and root for the underdog, so take it with a grain of salt. Though I think you will be hard pressed to defend his argument that Iraqis even paid attention to the midterm election, and it had something to do with the positive changes of 2007. Actually many in the Middle East media hailed Rumsfeld's departure as the real turning point for US involvement in Iraq, not the midterm election. Not sure if everyday Iraqis paid attention though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6138966.stm

I couldn't find the link, but I remember in the wake of the Dems regaining Congress last winter, NPR interviewed Iraqis on the streets and they basically didn't care or think it would change anything for their country. Of course the world cares about who will become the next president (especially the UK as our closest ally), but a few shifting chairs in Congress is not big news. Americans barely care about Pakistani parliamentary elections in February, and that result might actually affect us! Do you think Iraqis, who have their own convoluted domestic politics, and face the daily challenges of finding work/acquiring scarce goods/avoiding death, care that Jim Webb won Virginia and now the Dems have a narrow majority in the Senate? There was no "major policy shift" underway just because Reid and Pelosi said so. They might have duped gullible and exasperated American voters, but skeptical Iraqis know better than to trust more blowhard American politicians (who never saw a minute of war, and might not know the difference between Sunni and Shia) with big promises of changing things.

Good timing for this Obama/surge discussion though, since Morning Edition is running a series on the effects of the surge this week: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17899543

If you don't believe me, listen to them. Their main factors that contributed to the reduction in violence:

(1) The Mahdi Army (largest Shia militia) was given a ceasefire order by its leader al-Sadr to stop targeting Americans and Sunnis (not sure what led to this decision), and now he is busy studying to become an Ayatollah.

(2) The factions were weary of civil war and supporting Al Qaeda, plus they are more segregated now so it's harder for them to murder each other daily.

(3) General Petraeus was under strong pressure to reduce US casualties, so he and others embraced a plan to cut deals with the Sunni insurgents. Instead of fighting with them daily, we would bribe them to work for us.

The strongest reason they cite is number 3. Nowhere in their article did they mention Sunnis reacting to the Congressional election (sorry Obama). And surging 30,000 troops into greater Baghdad and the Sunni triangle (a region of over 10 million Iraqis) probably couldn't account for the widespread, night-and-day reduction of violence (sorry Bush). So from the evidence at hand, it appears that the Bush surge and 2006 elections are not the chief causes. Violence was inevitably on the decline due to demographic factors in Iraq (as L and I said, the nation is a lot more segregated/displaced/ethnically cleansed now) and Petraeus' clever but risky strategy of bribing Sunni militants into cooperation. Since the majority of anti-American insurgents are Sunni, this seems to make sense. And with the Mahdi Army on vacation, the few Sunnis still living in mixed neighborhoods might feel less threatened, less dependent on insurgents, and more willing to work with Americans. Actually it's the Shia Maliki government that has been vehemently protesting this initiative. Of course they don't want Americans cutting deals and arming their rivals.

I guess that is how you change behaviors during a traumatic war in the Middle East. Paying Sunni militants $10/day in the CLC program ("Concerned Local Citizens") to patrol their own neighborhoods seems affordable and practical. It takes the crosshairs and pressure off exhausted US forces, and gives Iraqis a sense of solidarity, purpose, and gainful employment (so the desperate ones aren't lured and bribed by Al Qaeda instead). If Sunnis feel that the National Police are just a corrupt Shia militia in uniform (they would be correct), then this is a better way for them to fight for their people, stand up to rivals, and try to make their homeland better. Stepping up reconstruction efforts doesn't hurt either (schools, utilities, jobs). The people need immediate, tangible compensation, which is something that the Dems in Congress didn't and can't provide. This strategy is not without concern or criticism though. In some cases, we are creating mercenaries out of fighters who were shooting at Americans a month ago. We are trusting them to do the job of US soldiers. And history tells us that empires in trouble, like Rome, are the only ones desperate enough to rely on mercenaries. Also what's stopping these Sunni CLCs from using their new found cash and arms to take revenge on Shias (as Maliki fears) or even their American employers? Analysts are worried that Petraeus' move might buy us some temporary calm in Iraq, but long-term it's a recipe for an even bloodier future civil war. Time will tell.

Ignorance also produces false assumptions and fears. Your assertion that an American withdrawal is undesirable among Sunnis is also dubious. It was their country before we deposed Saddam, and the anti-American insurgency is mostly Sunni. Contrary to some allegations, most attacks on American soldiers came from Sunni Iraqis, not foreigners or Iranian-backed Shias. The Al Qaeda sympathizers who remain are also Sunni (though Qaeda has tried to kill Sunni leaders that cooperate with the US). They are also probably quite upset at us for losing power through de-Ba'athification, as well as the corrupt political processes that brought unfit leaders like Chalibi and Maliki into positions of influence. This 2006 poll suggests that Sunnis are the most eager ethnic group to see the Yanks gone ASAP, while the semi-autonomous Kurds are the least, especially now with the Turkey-PKK problem ( http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/ ).

Yes I think some Sunnis are concerned with Shia domination without the US to keep a lid on things, but it's almost moot since the country is already Shia-dominated. Don't forget that Shia Muslims are a tiny minority in worldwide Islam, so there are plenty of sources of support for Iraq's Sunnis if we vacate (especially Saudi Arabia and Egypt). Sunni nations are scared shitless of a "Shia Revival" in Mesopotamia, and will strongly oppose any Iran-Iraq-Hizbullah axis from developing. As bizarre as it seems, Sunnis are more hostile to Iran than we are, so they'll be damned to let Iran enjoy the spoils if America leaves. Let us also not forget that some Sunnis (including former Al Qaeda in Iraq leader Zarqawi) really view Shias as vile heretics, and may want to kill them more than Americans or Jews. No matter what, president 44 has to do a better job reading up on Islam and Middle East history (or at least appoint the right advisors).

http://www.cfr.org/publication/11179/shia_revival.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7309835 (I already blogged about this piece)

Obama's pdf that you forwarded doesn't say anything new or insightful on Iraq (though his humanitarian agenda is very commendable), and a total withdrawal by 2009 is not as easy as some Dems make it sound. How much would we leave behind? The training and equipping of Iraqi security forces is incomplete. Just the process of cleaning (desert dust is murder on machinery) and packing up all our stuff would take over a year. It would also be very expensive (not as expensive as continuing the war for years, of course), and we are just talking about withdrawing to neighboring Kuwait, not Camp Pendleton. And our forces en route to Kuwait probably won't be able to stop along the way on their 350 mile journey through scorching desert, due to security concerns (unless we erect a series of huge fortified "rest stops" for them). Have Obama or others given this much thought? I am tired of incomplete planning and empty promises, but I better get used to it since this is campaign season after all.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12360390 (Iraq withdrawal logistics)

------

From NPR on the surge and causes of reduced violence:

"The real debate, in my mind ... (is) not whether things are better in Iraq — they are unquestionably like night and day, (the) change in the level of violence. The real question is what caused it," McCaffrey said.

What caused it is open to debate. "Improvements in security are a result of the greater number of coalition and Iraqi security forces and the strategy that guides the operations we conduct," Petraeus says.

But some current and former military officers with whom NPR spoke disagree. McCaffrey and other former officers say that a surge of 30,000 additional troops into a country of 30 million could never have enough of an impact alone to turn things around. "The least important aspect of the so-called change in strategy was the surge," McCaffrey says.

Once Insurgents, Now Allies

If it wasn't just the surge, how did it happen? It could be, in part, exhaustion among Sunnis, tired of fighting and dying. Or also, in part, a cease-fire declared by the largest Shiite militia, others say. But another part, and possibly the most significant, can be traced to the end of last May. That month, 126 U.S. troops died; it was the second deadliest month for U.S. forces during the war. Petraeus was under pressure to reduce those casualties.

"Petraeus seems to have concluded that it was essential to cut deals with the Sunni insurgents if he was going to succeed in reducing U.S. casualties," Macgregor says.

The military now calls those "deals" the Concerned Local Citizens program or simply, CLCs. It's a somewhat abstract euphemism. The CLC program turns groups of former insurgents, including fighters for al-Qaida in Iraq, into paid, temporary allies of the U.S. military.

Creating a New Force

Some 70,000 former insurgents are now being paid $10 a day by the U.S. military. It costs about a quarter billion dollars a year. It's a controversial strategy, and Macgregor warns that it's creating a parallel military force in Iraq that is made up almost entirely of Sunni Muslims. "We need to understand that buying off your enemy is a good short-term solution to gain a respite from violence," he says, "but it's not a long-term solution to creating a legitimate political order inside a country that, quite frankly, is recovering from the worst sort of civil war."

That civil war has subsided, for now. It's diminished because of massive, internal migration, a movement of populations that has created de-facto ethnic cantons. "Segregation works is effectively what the U.S. military is telling you," Macgregor says. "We have facilitated, whether on purpose or inadvertently, the division of the country. We are capitalizing on that now, and we are creating new militias out of Sunni insurgents. We're calling them concerned citizens and guardians. These people are not our friends, they do not like us, they do not want us in the country. Their goal is unchanged."

Macgregor, a decorated combat veteran and a former administration adviser, articulates a view that is privately shared by several former and current officers. It's not that they believe the plan isn't working. It's that they see it as a dangerous one with potentially destructive consequences. But McCaffrey argues that at $10 a day, the gamble is worth taking. "We can pay them that for 10 years if we had to," he says. "Better we provide an infusion of cash where we're keeping a local night watchman for us on duty than we conduct combat operation. Money isn't even a factor we ought to take into account."

A Temporary Freeze

Macgregor says that people are desperate for success. "They want to believe that we have done something positive for the population of Iraq. That we are helping them to become something positive," he says. "The thing that worries me most of all is what happens over the next 12 to 24 months in Iraq. Could we not have made matters worse in the long term? Are we not actually setting Iraq up for a worse civil war than the one we have already seen?"

Iraq can be seen as a conflict temporarily frozen. The largest Shiite militia group has temporarily sworn-off attacking both the U.S. military and Sunni Muslims. Sunni groups are, for the time being, allying themselves with the United States for a fee. And in the north, Kurdish militants are focused on Turkey rather than Iraq. It is a waiting game. And still, quietly, each group builds its own armory, preparing for the inevitability of fighting another day.