Showing posts with label conventions. Show all posts
Showing posts with label conventions. Show all posts

Wednesday, August 27, 2008

More on the convention


Perhaps looking to politics to solve all of our country's most urgent and difficult problems is not an exclusive path to a solution... I'm not sure if you've ever heard the (Eastern, specifically Taoist) expression "I only know go" but it's a way of saying you don't have to know everything about every subject to know what is going on; if you work in a specific problem domain then you can usually understand what you need to know by focusing on that problem domain. I don't disagree with your comments about politics and how it tends to work but I do think the best way to affect politics (if that's what you really want to do or what really needs to be done) is to become a politician. As a software engineer I only know software - and I know both parties have all the wrong ideas when it comes to information, expression, and efficiency (i.e. business), which are the things that software deals with - meaning they'll either do gross harm or will never catch up to what really matters. Expecting people (or a given individual) to transcend that which makes them fallible (i.e. human) is expecting a lot, or, in other words, setting yourself up for disappointment.


I guess what I ultimately mean to say is that I'm not getting a lot out of this discussion since a subject like "Conventions are stupid" doesn't create a context in which a meaningful exchange of ideas can occur. Political conventions are history in the making irrespective of any given individual's ideology & persuasions; perhaps concluding that they're stupid only means you're not involved enough in the process?

-------

Sorry R, it was just a silly email title that was not intended to be the basis of discussion. If you're not getting a lot out of this discussion, that's unfortunate but not my responsibility. You have the ability to move the conversation in a better direction if you choose, or even start your own. I hope you recognize that half of this thread is just joking around and blowing off steam (Nike endorses Obama, Biden hoping for an assassination, remaking the government, etc.). If the Dems get to vent and bitch about Bush, McCain, and America's problems for 4 days at their convention, then we should be able to do it in cyberspace now and then. As you know, I write my emails to entertain, provoke, complain, or offer alternative viewpoints than the mainstream. Plus it's the only way I have left to interact with some of my friends who have moved away.

If I feel that conventions are "stupid", I don't think you can simply attribute that to my ignorance or detachment. We're more politically aware than 95% of Americans (that is not to our credit, but a criticism of the nation as whole). From what I know, I think that much of the conventions lack substance, spread misinformation or biased half-truths, and involve a lot of waste, hype, and busyness for little tangible gain for the Americans who are desperately seeking sound leadership and help from their elected government. So yes, that qualifies as "stupid" for me. We need more action, not lavish parties and cliched speeches. In NPR's words, conventions are "infomercials" (yet they still send many of their people to cover it). If you watch much off-hours TV, you know that most infomercials are stupid, long-winded, and unpersuasive.

Of course complaining about a situation from the outside does little good, especially from nobodies like us who don't lead think tanks or host TV shows. If we want to change politics, the most expedient way may be to participate in the process as you said. But most of us don't have the resources, credentials, and opportunity to do so. When you get accepted to medical school, there's a very good chance you'll become a doctor. When you want to enter politics, there's no guarantee you'll even get a foot in the door, much less achieve enough success to feed your loved ones and "make a difference". And participating usually means playing by their rules, so one risks becoming part of the problem. Many good people have entered politics to clean it up, and failed. I know I'm just listing a bunch of possible reasons why it won't work, and yes if we really wanted to, many of us could drop everything tomorrow and enter politics to try to help people. "Yes we can". A society's failings are ultimately the fault of the people not their government, though bad leaders (Nero, Hitler) can do much more damage than 1,000 apathetic citizens. But we have limits on us that politicians don't. And not everyone can work in politics. Even if we could, it would be chaos. America has about one doctor for every 50 people, but maybe we have one politician for every 1,000? Especially at the higher levels, politics are not intender for or open to everyone, hence all the buzz for the first woman and black to have a real shot at the presidency. Actually the bigger buzz should be for the first non-rich person or "everyday Joe" who has a chance of becoming president. So just because you or I are not involved in politics doesn't mean we've somehow shirked our responsibilities to try to solve the problems we complain about. If anything, it's very patriotic and American to talk about problems, rather than making excuses for them or pretending they don't exist. Sure action is better than talking (especially when we talk so much that we delay action, like Sacramento), but we have a limited ability to influence others.

But why would I want to get involved in a convention process whose purpose I don't agree with? In my limited view, political conventions don't seem to be worth the effort, and don't really serve to address the goals set forth by the speakers. Does the Oscars ceremony help make Hollywood films better? And not many voters even watch or care about the Conventions. The major networks barely cover them on prime time because "Heroes" makes them more money (but cable news picks up the slack). Simplistic and/or inaccurate propaganda like "flip-flopper" 4 years ago and "Bush-McCain administration" today do a disservice to the political process and insult voter intelligence (though sadly it is effective on some people). Maybe conventions are more of an occasion for party big shots and VIPs to network, cut deals, and discuss strategy behind the scenes, while the masses chant and cheer to nonsense, as L's article suggested.

--------

There are some qualities of Obama and the Dems that I still like, and maybe they will be able to "renew the promise of America". Though the Dem's track record in Congress has been abysmal since they won control in 2006, especially since they promised us the moon. I really don't expect politicians to "transcend their human failings", but sometimes their language suggests that they intend to, which is insincere because we all know they can't. I guess you can't inspire people with, "I'm going to let you down sometimes and maybe we won't be able to deliver on some of these proposals". It's like they don't trust the voters with the truth, unless it can be condensed into a bumper sticker. I just expect them to level with us, work hard, and make decisions thoughtfully and justly, with our collective best interests in mind. Isn't that what our bosses expect from lowly workers like us? I hope I'm not asking for too much.

But conventions are so uber-partisan that it makes me gag (Zell Miller at the RNC in 2004 was the low point). No one party or leader is right all the time. Dems have failed where the GOP has succeeded, and vice versa. Obama and McCain are great men and leaders in some ways, and bozos in other ways. Republicans love this country too (though they sometimes express it in bizarre ways), and they endorse some sound ideas/policies. If the Dems were so right and GOP so wrong, how could millions of intelligent, patriotic Republicans be so stupid to not see the light? Of course this applies doubly for the ultra-right, since they equate liberals with Al Qaeda. We have to be able to give credit, tolerance, and respect to our opponents, especially when they're our fellow citizens. It is good and right for us to criticize each other and our leaders, but also to acknowledge when the other side has a point. I try to do that in all my contentious emails ("try" means I fail sometimes). Isn't that the first step to compromise and cooperation? Obama's camp claims that he can bring people together like no other leader today. But his rhetoric has been quite pejorative and divisive at times, no different than his competitors.

In fact it's hard to even speak of political parties in generalities. America is complex, large, and diverse, and our politics are even more so. It's unnatural to try to enforce unity and homogeneity. Obama's people are so paranoid of him appearing inept to "control" his own party and get the Hillary supporters in line. They don't want their house to look disorderly on prime time. So what? Politics are disorderly. Have you ever seen footage of the British Parliament (and they are supposed to be all genteel and polished)? Previous US conventions had fights and riots, and took a long time to decide on a nominee. I hope there is no way that the better candidate can lose an election just because his or her convention didn't go smoothly. Not all Dems think the same. And if we do, it's time to get our heads examined. There's no harm in some delegates expressing their preference for Clinton, Kucinich, or whomever as the best candidate. They will be overruled, but they shouldn't be censored or forced to change their minds. Even Clinton's aides say she still privately fumes and mourns her defeat. Maybe they haven't "healed" 100%, but the party is still moving forward in a positive manner towards November. The handlers don't have to micromanage everyone so that the party appears flawless and harmonious. That's not real, and in fact it arouses suspicion when they have made so much effort to choreograph everything (like China and the Olympics). What are they hiding from America?

Conventions themselves are not a bad thing, and can serve a good purpose. But they way they are conducted now is stupid.

Tuesday, August 26, 2008

DNC Thoughts


I want to know who paid Obama to flop on the election. Biden?! This guy who ~6 months ago said to Obama’s face that he was not ready for the presidency and states he would be honored to run for or against McCain? Wtf? Either he will say what needs to be said to win elections (thinks obama is ready for presidency) or he is banking on an early assassination (not entirely unlikely). And the guy has foot in mouth disease, a political time bomb at this stage in the election. I just can’t wait for some 1 on 1 debates between McCain and Bama. If the polling spread does shoot through the roof then I know racism is calling this election.

---------

Who else pays black men these days, NIKE of course! I think it's pretty clear that Biden was chosen as an attack dog type guy. Obama is seen as a nice guy, in fact I haven't seen a single attack ad against McCain yet but I've seen plenty against Obama. Biden will probably change that. It's a weird comparison to make, but it's kinda like when Cheney was chosen to be Bush's vp. He is picked specifically to be a jackass and take on the negative aspects of a campaign.

Also, I'm a little surprised that Obama has done so well as it is. I always kind of assumed there was a lot of racism in this country but apparently democrat followers are more loyal than I would have thought. Although, no one likes Hilary except for middle aged women so that helped him a little bit.

As for t's email, my bitter and cynical nature about politics prevents my surprise or outrage but the whole convention thing is one big circle jerk for the parties. Basically it's a "look how awesome we are" event that is as you pointed out, a waste of time and money. It's simply the American way to throw money at whatever worthless shit suits our fancy. Especially in politics and government.

-------

Well, I think T is talking about an ideal case for the convention; the fact is that (in 1968) the DNC's convention was a "media spectacle" of the highest order as well, although for different reasons... having Abby Hoffman-inspired protesters getting stomped by cops in riot gear makes headlines too, albeit to the benefit of a guy like Richard Nixon.

-------

I knew that Obama’s jumper looked too good to be luck. Dude went to the nike training facilities.



“In my run to the white house, I need to be competitive and I need to move fast. That’s why I need Obama brand shoes. Buy your Obamers today!”



I saw a digg article recently, maybe it is still front page if you check fast, about a supposed attempt on Obama’s life at the convention. I’m telling you Biden wants the oval!

--------

Haha yeah, and I almost forgot about this:

In the article published Wednesday, Biden is quoted evaluating presidential rivals Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, former Sen. John Edwards, D-North Carolina, and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois. His remarks about Obama, the only African-American serving in the Senate, drew the most scrutiny.

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man." (Watch Biden's comments and Obama's reaction )

Biden issued a statement Wednesday afternoon, saying: "I deeply regret any offense my remark in the New York Observer might have caused anyone. That was not my intent and I expressed that to Sen. Obama."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/

I guess he let bygones be bygones, but really it wasn't such a big deal - just funny and indicative of Biden's ability to put his foot in his mouth. Not sure why he picked Biden; two northerners on the same ticket? Delaware isn't a swing state. I guess Hilly was out (bad blood, and no one wants to risk the veep outshining the top dog), and Edwards is an adulterer. Webb is a Senate noob like Obama, so that ticket would get punched. But I tend to agree with some of Biden's foreign policy stances, and I respect him for being outspoken to the point where it gets him in trouble (remind you of anyone?).

Well let's be honest - Obama isn't ready for the presidency, maybe McCain too. Very few candidates are I think. He's never held a prominent executive role (not even head of a Senate Cmte). He got people together and got them to vote in Chicago. "There's no school for presidents", said JFK. But it's ok; you learn "on the job" and do your best I guess. I know that crock hate book about Obama that was recently published was a load of crap, but one part of the title, "The Cult of Celebrity", is relevant. Some of his hard core fans and adorers really scare me, especially coming from an "educated Western democracy". This is like the stuff where ignorant poor masses worship leaders like Bhutto and Mao, even though such people might screw them behind their backs (not saying Obama is like that). They don't even know why they love them, they just do, and can't even articulate what that leader has really done for them (if anything), apart from the obvious propaganda disseminated by the PR machine. It just makes them feel good, so they do it. How can you love someone so much who you don't really know and hasn't really had much of a public career? He "inspires" people with speeches. I guess after years of bad news and currently a bad economy looming over their heads, folks really want to believe in "the promise of America" and hope for change for the better, so they may embrace Obama as a potential manifestation of those feelings. It's a hope, like buying a lottery ticket. Heck I might even vote for him as part of that hope. But it may not be a rational choice. I'm not saying that any other available candidate is better, but it's sad when the most powerful and privileged voting public on Earth may resort to that thinking, and it sets a scary precedent.

I think some speakers at the DNC today said that America "needs" Obama. Really? He's the only one who can save us huh? I'm fairly sure that there are at least 100 Americans out there who could be better presidents that him, and most of them aren't even politicians. You just have to care about doing right, sacrifice for the good of others, and have some common sense (at least enough to hire the right help, unlike how W did). I think it's really that simple, but of course not everyone can put themselves in the position to have a shot for the Oval Office. All his ideas about energy policy, climate change, health care reform, Middle East, job creation, etc. have been around for years. Obama didn't invent any of it. A president is not an idea man; he has no time for that. He instead acts as a conduit for other people's ideas to flow through and get to the right parties, so stuff can actually get done in government. But some people are acting like Obama will somehow succeed where others have failed. I hope they're right. He's got skills, but I don't know if he'll be able to deliver us from the housing bust, the wars in the Middle East, the middle class squeeze, and racial-social injustice, to name a few of the problems that he and his supporters have professed to be able to solve.

Instead of solving problems, it seems that the office of the president has become more of a money and power making vehicle for the president's buddies. I am sure it will be the same with Obama or McCain, though of course toned down from the ludicrous Bush years. The VIPs that helped them get elected aren't just doing it because they love America. Maybe some are, but others will want kickbacks, and President 44 will try to find ways to satisfy them without making a stink. Though the tough part is when they have to decide between special interests and national interests. But it's still quid pro quo, especially when re-election time comes. If a president can totally divorce him or herself from those conflicts of interest, then I think they have a chance to be an excellent leader. I just can't see that happening in these days of modern campaigning, where candidates are raising and spending $30M+ a month.

Addressing G's comments about negative campaigning - yes I think for the most part Obama's camp has been classier and more positive than the GOP. But he did of course make a big deal about McCain casually forgetting how many houses he owns in one TV ad, and struck back at the "Barack is the biggest celebrity in the world" McCain ad in another piece. But as the Wiggys said, Biden and others will try to do Obama's dirty work, to keep him smelling like roses to the voters, as Reagan and Bush were able to do. Obama has also tried to rehash the same tired line on the campaign trail: a vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of failed Bush policies. One may argue that case, but the fact is that McCain's platform is much different than Bush's. But that is Obama's main (and maybe only) attack on McCain policy so far - he's out of touch with the economy (as if Barack isn't), and he's a carbon copy of Bush. But that's not true; McCain acknowledges climate change and has ideas to combat it (not sure if they're workable ideas). He wants to reform the health insurance system, similar to the ideas of market-driven conservatives from 1990. He believes in energy conservation, which the Bushies dismissed. He also is not a pawn of the Religious Right, though he is definitely courting them. He does take a hard line on Russia and Iran which is quite problematic and unwise. But Obama and McCain actually have quite similar views on several issues, including stem cells, immigration, and government reform. Heck they've worked together in the Senate, and they're even not so different about taxes and the Iraq War, though maybe that issue works in McCain's favor as long as stability is increasing. I guess this may be a symptom of candidates moving towards the center after primary season, but it also shows that McCain, while not a pure Maverick, is not a total party line extremist either. Nor is Obama of course. So Obama really needs to retire or modify this tired attack, unless of course it seems to be working with the voters.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-centrists13-2008jul13,0,7130991.story

An interesting history of some famous campaign ads:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93694355

Yeah glad C brought up the DNC in 1968. It was a real defining American moment, with '60s protest culture, much anger over the war, and typical Democrat ineptitude merging with TV's growing prominence in politics to create a perfect storm. 1968 is a big reason why the conventions are the heavily controlled, artificial entities that they are today.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93937947

--------

the people who bought obama also bought this show. see if they show any of the convention bags. it's got a big AT&T logo on the bag. on sunday night, AT&T threw a private party for lobbyists and delegates and the press was not allowed. what was going on in there? was this a big thank you for giving them immunity only weeks ago? and, why didn't the press cover it? two people showed up to cover the party-amy goodman of democracy now and glenn greenwald of salon. and, where's coverage of the police state outside? if obama gets shot, it won't be because they spent too little on security. a 'fusion' center of all law enforcement(FBI, CIA, local and state police) has been set up a some ridiculous expense. free speech cages have been established once again.

Glenn Greenwald
Monday Aug. 25, 2008 11:15 EDT
AT&T thanks the Blue Dog Democrats with a lavish party
(updated below (with video added) - Update II)
Last night in Denver, at the Mile High Station -- next to Invesco Stadium, where Barack Obama will address a crowd of 30,000 people on Thursday night -- AT&T threw a lavish, private party for Blue Dog House Democrats, virtually all of whom blindly support whatever legislation the telecom industry demands and who also, specifically, led the way this July in immunizing AT&T and other telecoms from the consequences for their illegal participation in the Bush administration's warrantless spying program. Matt Stoller has one of the listings for the party here.
Armed with full-scale Convention press credentials issued by the DNC, I went -- along with Firedoglake's Jane Hamsher, John Amato, Stoller and others -- in order to cover the event, interview the attendees, and videotape the festivities. There was a wall of private security deployed around the building, and after asking where the press entrance was, we were told by the security officials, after they consulted with event organizers, that the press was barred from the event, and that only those with invitations could enter -- notwithstanding the fact that what was taking place in side was a meeting between one of the nation's largest corporations and the numerous members of the most influential elected faction in Congress. As a result, we stood in front of the entrance and began videotaping and trying to interview the parade of Blue Dog Representatives, AT&T executives, assorted lobbyists and delegates who pulled up in rented limousines, chauffeured cars, and SUVs in order to find out who was attending and why AT&T would be throwing such a lavish party for the Blue Dog members of Congress.
Amazingly, not a single one of the 25-30 people we tried to interview would speak to us about who they were, how they got invited, what the party's purpose was, why they were attending, etc. One attendee said he was with an "energy company," and the other confessed she was affiliated with a "trade association," but that was the full extent of their willingness to describe themselves or this event. It was as though they knew they're part of a filthy and deeply corrupt process and were ashamed of -- or at least eager to conceal -- their involvement in it. After just a few minutes, the private security teams demanded that we leave, and when we refused and continued to stand in front trying to interview the reticent attendees, the Denver Police forced us to move further and further away until finally we were unable to approach any more of the arriving guests.
It was really the perfect symbol for how the Beltway political system functions -- those who dictate the nation's laws (the largest corporations and their lobbyists) cavorting in total secrecy with those who are elected to write those laws (members of Congress), while completely prohibiting the public from having any access to and knowledge of -- let alone involvement in -- what they are doing. And all of this was arranged by the corporation -- AT&T -- that is paying for a substantial part of the Democratic National Convention with millions upon millions of dollars, which just received an extraordinary gift of retroactive amnesty from the Congress controlled by that party, whose logo is splattered throughout the city wherever the DNC logo appears -- virtually attached to it -- all taking place next to the stadium where the Democratic presidential nominee, claiming he will cleanse the Beltway of corporate and lobbying influences, will accept the nomination on Thursday night.
The only other media which even attempted to cover the AT&T/Blue Dog event was Democracy Now -- they were also barred from entering. I was on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman this morning to discuss what happened. They put together a 5-minute video montage, including our efforts to enter the event and interview the guests, which they broadcast before my segment. The video and my segment can be seen and/or heard here -- it begins at the 1:00 mark. A transcript will be posted shortly.
Jane Hamsher also filmed some of what transpired, and Salon has created our own video of last night, including the efforts by the private security teams and Denver Police to prevent us from standing on public property to interview the arriving members of Congress and AT&T executives and lobbyists. That will be posted shortly. There's nothing unusual about this event -- other than that it was more forcibly private than most and just a tad more brazenly sleazy. The democracy-themed stagecraft inside the Convention is for public television consumption, but secret little events of this sort are why people are really here. Just as is true in Washington, this is where -- and how and by whom -- the business of our Government is conducted.

UPDATE: Here is the video from last night's festivities, with our attempt to interview various attendees and interactions with the private security forces and Police -- filmed by Jane Hamsher and edited by Salon's Caitlin Shamberg:

--------

Wow thank you for that link; didn't know about that and it's disappointing. Yes I guess it would be very bad for business if a popular politician like Obama kept the heat on telecoms for their role in Bush's illegal wiretapping. So if they could convince him to "let it go" with various compensations, everyone wins right? If he was only a few months away from the White House, why the urgency to get the bill passed this summer? It's not like Osama will go free because the bill didn't pass (heck we're not even looking for him, because everyone is preoccupied with the Olympics and election). Assuming the Dems retain control of Congress, his people could work with Pelosi/Reid to craft a better version of the legislation, right? Fishy.

Yeah about that security, so much for the Dem Party being the "party of the people", but we knew that long ago. It's an exclusive country club like the other party. The GOP may have the industrialists, bankers, and preachers, but the Dems have the Hollywood elites, academic snobs, and lawyers. Neither represent the lower and middle classes, even though they pander to those groups every 4 years with wonderful speeches and promises. Obama is no different, or hopefully he can prove me wrong. What irks me about Obama and some of his supporters is that they really act like he's cut from a different cloth, like his poop doesn't stink. He's so cool with his fist-bump and "dusting off the shoulder" after Hillary's attacks. He speaks so well! With his limited public service record, he hasn't earned this much love. He worked hard for his own career and family, but he hasn't bled and toiled for his fellow Americans like Abe Lincoln or MLK.

Unlike those stupid emails and books from the Right, these critiques are not slander. We peel back the layers, and we find out stuff we don't like, like the immunity for telecoms, his abrasive history in Illinois, and reneging on public funding. But some people choose to ignore it, because they want to believe in him as a savior, and saviors never have flaws. I don't expect candidates to fix everything, be good 100% of the time, and have all the answers, but at least don't BS us about it. Of course that goes for McCain or anyone else too. The guy is old (senile?) and filthy rich; he was being honest and didn't make excuses - he doesn't know how many properties he owns because it's not on his mind a lot, unlike people in Fresno about to be foreclosed. Maybe he doesn't know how much milk costs, like Bush during the 1991 recession. They're all just products of a flawed system. I saw a bumper sticker online that said, "Someone better for president 2008". Maybe that someone does or doesn't exist, or could never survive in Washington anyway.

Anyone think we could use a few more mainstream political parties to have some REAL choice at the polls? Maybe coalition governments like Europe won't be such a bad idea, because it forces politicians with disparate views to work together and compromise. Of course then you might get the tyranny of the minority, like in Israel, but our nation is 200+ years old and maybe it's time to try something different. The status quo is stagnating, festering, and getting more and more expensive to maintain. So what if it's harder to get things done with a coalition? It's not like DC has a wonderful track record of productivity, or even worse, look at Sacramento! Get a prime minister, an independent judiciary, and have some real separation of powers. If it's not working out, dismantle the government and call snap elections (with only a 3 month campaign window, instead of the "endless American campaign").

Monday, August 25, 2008

Conventions are stupid


Now that delegates (representing voters) nominate candidates and not party insiders, political conventions serve no political purpose. They have degenerated into hollow, simplistic carefully-choreographed media spectacles like the Oscars. Half of the convention airtime is just music, applause, and cheering anyway. At best, they're just an occasion for party self-medication, self-adoration, and rehashing what we already know. Does anyone think that a "great convention", 3 months before the actual election, will actually help their candidate win? If undecideds base their votes on what is said at the conventions, then our political process really needs rescue.

I know the delegates, staffers, and volunteers deserve a big party to feel good after all the hard work they invested into getting their candidate this far, but come on. Politics seems more about pomp and festival these days rather than the actually hard, boring, complex, frustrating work that it must be.

I can summarize 3 days of the DNC into half a page:

- Love and happiness
- Clintons, Kennedys, Obamas
- Starry-eyed media speaking in superlatives
- How awesome Denver and Colorado are
- How awesome and cool Barack Obama is, and there may be a fist-bump sighting
- Obama is a regular guy just like us and worships the Christian god
- Obama's father was from Kenya and was raised by a single mom
- Obama is a "transcendent" politician because he's black AND white, and will let you have abortions AND guns
- Obama, despite reporting $4M income on his last tax return, understands the struggles of ordinary working people and will help us achieve the American Dream
- Upstart politicians using the convention podium as a career springboard, as Obama did in 2004
- Maybe Iraq will be discussed, but in a 2005 mindset (when the war was a more useful talking point for them)
- Unity
- Hope
- Change
- Other abstract one-word cliches, without concrete plans (or honest desire) to actually realize them in a measurable way
- John McCain = George Bush
- John McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns
- Maybe a Hillary coup d'etat to become the nominee

And the RNC will be much worse.

Now they could have just mailed that statement out, and saved millions of dollars and labor hours. Maybe they could have invested those resources to tackle all the critical problems that McCain, Obama et al. promise to fix.

Thursday, July 10, 2008

Israeli collective punishment on the families of "terrorists"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92398760

"If we have to destroy houses then we must do so, and if we have to stop their social benefits, we must do so." - Ehud Olmert

Earlier this year, a gunman opened fire at a religious school in Israel, killing several. He was an Israeli citizen of Palestinian descent. Recently, a Palestinian Israeli drug addict and construction worker rammed his bulldozer into other vehicles, killing 3 and wounding 30. His mental state and motives were unclear, though of course PM Olmert immediately declared the tragedy a terrorist act. This has prompted calls in the Israeli Parliament for new laws to punish the families of Israeli citizens who commit violent acts of terrorism, by destroying their residence, cancelling benefits like health care and unemployment insurance, etc. They hope it will deter terrorists from striking, if they know that their families will suffer because of their actions. Critics say that this proposal is racist, because they wonder if the punishments will also apply to Jewish Israelis who go on rampages against Arab Israelis or other Jews (and it has happened plenty of times in the Occupied Territories, as well as the Rabin assassination). But that is basically the equivalent of Japanese internment by the US Government during WWII. Collective punishment and guilt by association shouldn't be practiced by civilized societies. Moral arguments aside, this "deterrent" may not even be effective, since Hamas or other organizations would probably compensate the families for their losses at the hands of the Israeli Government, in order to score propaganda points.

Palestinians in the Occupied Territories have major travel restrictions on them, so they have very little ability to harm Israelis, apart from firing pop gun rockets over the security barrier. But when Israel annexed the predominantly Palestinian East Jerusalem after the 1967 War (a move deemed illegimitate by the UN, and most everyone else but the US), they granted Israeli legal status to the people there (not sure if they are full citizens). Although they can't vote, those Palestinians can travel freely in Israel and enjoy state benefits as Jewish Israelis do. A fifth of Israel's population is non Jewish Palestinian-Arab, and they are growing at a faster rate than their Jewish compatriots. But now Tel Aviv is wondering whether the "enemy from within" is a security threat to them, especially after the last two highly-publicized attacks (even though the majority of Arab Israelis are law-abiding and some even serve in government). So apart from imprisoning or killing terrorists involved in attacks on Jews, they also seek to punish the terrorist's family.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0721-31.htm

Similar to my previous emails on the issue, is this really about defense, or is it humiliation and revenge? Sadly, this "family punishment" proposal in Israel is eerily similar to NAZI tactics during WWII. Many conquered European nations resisted Nazi occupation, from France to Ukraine. The Nazis knew that the resistance/partisans/terrorists/whatever-you-want-to-call-them were happy to give their lives in battle. But maybe they would think twice if their families would suffer and ancestral villages were razed in retaliation. Maybe the occupied peoples would discourage resistance among their ranks, because they feared Nazi reprisals. But in practice, punishment as counterterrorism failed miserably. Nazi atrocities against locals as payback for resistance only served to outrage previously neutral parties and galvanize resistance. In fact it increased subsequent attacks on Germans, which prompted even more outrageous retaliation, and the cycle of violence continued. In fact, some in the Nazi High Command warned Hitler that this would happen and discouraged the use of collective punishment for resistance, but they were overruled.

Most of us would agree that collective punishment is wrong (don't tell that to Bush, McCain, and even Obama who are calling for more sanctions on Iran and Zimbabwe). Even the "wrathful God" of the Old Testament said he would spare a sinful city if there was but one just person living there. A family can exert only so much control over one of their own, so why should all of them have to pay for the crimes one person committed? Many Palestinians in East Jerusalem kept to themselves and weren't political, but after 1967 they suddenly found themselves living "inside Israel". They never asked for Israeli citizenship, yet never advocated or participated in Israel's destruction either. I am sure that many Arab Israelis disagree with some of the decisions of their government, just as many Americans disagree with Washington. This is what happens (and should happen) in a democracy and free society, and doesn't mean that those people are security threats. Unfortunately, some citizens do abuse their freedoms and lash out in violent ways against their perceived enemies. But why involve the rest of the family? That is petty and barbaric actually. Even the Mafia and other criminals show enough honor to heed the basic rule of gang violence: the families shouldn't be harmed. Did the US destroy Tim McVeigh's home and revoke citizenship/benefits for all his relatives?

As commander of a Nazi einsatzgruppen death squad in occupied Poland, Dr. Werner Best came to believe that the most effective response to terrorism was collective punishment. After the fall of France he went on to draft the Third Reich's counterterrorism policy for countries occupied by Germany. Towns where acts of "passive" resistance such as the cutting of telegraph cables had taken place were placed under curfews, fined and slapped with travel restrictions. "Active" resistance--the killing of a German soldier--would be met by reprisal killings of local civilians... Convinced that collective punishment was failing because it wasn't severe enough, the führer issued a September 1941 order to use "the harshest measures" against civilians in areas where the Resistance was active. Arguing that "only the [collective] death penalty can be a real means of deterrence," Hitler ordered that 50 civilians be executed for each German soldier killed.

- Ted Rall, CommonDreams.org

The 4th Geneva Conventions of 1949: Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.